Comments on: Should clubs be permitted to have a team in both Premier & Div.1 Competitions? http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/ Football in Tasmania Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:48:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: TC http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-717 TC Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:55:16 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-717 I think that this 'problem' is being over-analysed a tad. The way I see it, you would be hard-pressed to find any premier league player who was willing to risk fatigue and injury to drop down to div 1 for the sake of a few league points (which one player is hardly likely to affect the result of anway). At most clubs, the only players who drop down to div 1 are those on the fringe of premier reserves who would otherwise not play on that weekend. I think that this ‘problem’ is being over-analysed a tad. The way I see it, you would be hard-pressed to find any premier league player who was willing to risk fatigue and injury to drop down to div 1 for the sake of a few league points (which one player is hardly likely to affect the result of anway).
At most clubs, the only players who drop down to div 1 are those on the fringe of premier reserves who would otherwise not play on that weekend.

]]> By: Borat http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-273 Borat Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:50:36 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-273 I have always viewed the reserves as the second tier in the state. Only in the recent year has walter pless started to print more div 1 than reserves in his articles. I think clubs like beachside and taroona are a little bit ahead of other clubs in that they are playing u/19 or u/17 what ever in their div 1 teams, this gives the boys a chance to play against bigger stronger and faster opponents while giving the lads a chance to mix with people older then what they would be used to. And if you look at the results taroona is promoted beachside was close, but they have some good youngsters coming through i think. I have always viewed the reserves as the second tier in the state. Only in the recent year has walter pless started to print more div 1 than reserves in his articles. I think clubs like beachside and taroona are a little bit ahead of other clubs in that they are playing u/19 or u/17 what ever in their div 1 teams, this gives the boys a chance to play against bigger stronger and faster opponents while giving the lads a chance to mix with people older then what they would be used to. And if you look at the results taroona is promoted beachside was close, but they have some good youngsters coming through i think.

]]> By: Left Back http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-218 Left Back Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:39:42 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-218 Blackjack , moving goalposts is easy option , why should things change , it has happened ever since Devonport pulled out of State League - didn't they get a 5 year ban ? but were allowed into Statewide Cup ? and so many other times not worth counting , decisions made by people who do not have "football knowledge or background " is a recipe for disaster . Clubs should form own group to set up league structures , thwey are the ones who have to do all the hard work , FFT just try to administer and set charges - 10 teams means more money to the coffers why would they want to reduce . Three tier League two divisions South both 8 teams as long term aim - one division North - their are the players but not the coaches or the volunteers and or grounds . A club based committee elected by the clubs sets league criteria all FFT have to do is ratify !! Blackjack , moving goalposts is easy option , why should things change , it has happened ever since Devonport pulled out of State League - didn’t they get a 5 year ban ? but were allowed into Statewide Cup ? and so many other times not worth counting , decisions made by people who do not have “football knowledge or background ” is a recipe for disaster .

Clubs should form own group to set up league structures , thwey are the ones who have to do all the hard work , FFT just try to administer and set charges - 10 teams means more money to the coffers why would they want to reduce .

Three tier League two divisions South both 8 teams as long term aim - one division North - their are the players but not the coaches or the volunteers and or grounds .

A club based committee elected by the clubs sets league criteria all FFT have to do is ratify !!

]]> By: Not a knight supporter http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-210 Not a knight supporter Fri, 08 Dec 2006 01:10:49 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-210 blackjack, There comes a point in time when these clubs will have to meet criterias to be able to stay in the competition and not just get by on acheiving results, all it takes is someone with a few balls to inforce them, this is exactly what they are starting to do in victoria. this is when we can truly say that we have a proper system of promotion relegation that any tteam that goes up goes through being successful on and off the field blackjack,
There comes a point in time when these clubs will have to meet criterias to be able to stay in the competition and not just get by on acheiving results, all it takes is someone with a few balls to inforce them, this is exactly what they are starting to do in victoria. this is when we can truly say that we have a proper system of promotion relegation that any tteam that goes up goes through being successful on and off the field

]]> By: Blackjack http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-208 Blackjack Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:25:56 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-208 NAKS (Not a Knight Supporter), a lot of the Premier League clubs don't even fit that criteria, so you could hardly ask the Div.1 clubs to do it, even if your intentions are 100% correct (and I agree with the sentiment of your idea). Knights, Zebras, Olympic & Uni cannot fill this criteria so they would be dropped to the lower divisions. Very few clubs in Div.1 would be able to achieve promotion without having two teams from one club (not a good idea!!) Sure, set the stringent criteria for Premier but the best thing that could happen at Div.1 level would be the introduction of a three tiered system. NAKS (Not a Knight Supporter), a lot of the Premier League clubs don’t even fit that criteria, so you could hardly ask the Div.1 clubs to do it, even if your intentions are 100% correct (and I agree with the sentiment of your idea). Knights, Zebras, Olympic & Uni cannot fill this criteria so they would be dropped to the lower divisions. Very few clubs in Div.1 would be able to achieve promotion without having two teams from one club (not a good idea!!)

Sure, set the stringent criteria for Premier but the best thing that could happen at Div.1 level would be the introduction of a three tiered system.

]]> By: Not a knight supporter http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-206 Not a knight supporter Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:38:43 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-206 I think we are all getting carried away with the promotion/relegation issue because even though hobart utd had won the right to promotion the previous year, there set up off field did not allow them to be successful on the field. I guess what i am trying to say, is that any club wishing to gain promotion to the premier league should have standards to be met before they enter premier league e.g junior programs, club rooms, home grounds and being financialy safe and sound. I think we are all getting carried away with the promotion/relegation issue because even though hobart utd had won the right to promotion the previous year, there set up off field did not allow them to be successful on the field. I guess what i am trying to say, is that any club wishing to gain promotion to the premier league should have standards to be met before they enter premier league e.g junior programs, club rooms, home grounds and being financialy safe and sound.

]]> By: Fabrizo http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-205 Fabrizo Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:45:19 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-205 Lionheart. Dont take offence, I certainly wasn't referring to Kingborough when I said SOME Premier League clubs drop players to Div 1. I could name them for clarity, but don't think that really furthers my argument to any great extent. KLUSC's Div1 staff are to be commended for how they run their team. Some other Premier league clubs are just as sporting. To address Charlie's comment on the rules, what some Div 1 teams do when well into the season and wooden spoons or premierships beckon is to drop 3 Premier league players each week for consecutive weeks, thus getting around the existing rules. I dont suggest we be like netball or hockey where each team has trials at the start of the year and players are only allowed to play for the one team they're picked for, but the rules we have simply dont work if someone doesn't have a sporting outlook. Blackjacks suggestion is about spot on. For the first year relegate bottom 2 teams from Premier league and have a playoff between Div 1 winner and 8th placed Premier League side to decide on make up of the two 8 team leagues. After that, promotion/relegation as per normal every year. If that means Olympic get relegated, then so be it. Decisions like this shouldnt be based around WHO may be relegated. thats just biased. Lionheart. Dont take offence, I certainly wasn’t referring to Kingborough when I said SOME Premier League clubs drop players to Div 1. I could name them for clarity, but don’t think that really furthers my argument to any great extent. KLUSC’s Div1 staff are to be commended for how they run their team. Some other Premier league clubs are just as sporting.

To address Charlie’s comment on the rules, what some Div 1 teams do when well into the season and wooden spoons or premierships beckon is to drop 3 Premier league players each week for consecutive weeks, thus getting around the existing rules. I dont suggest we be like netball or hockey where each team has trials at the start of the year and players are only allowed to play for the one team they’re picked for, but the rules we have simply dont work if someone doesn’t have a sporting outlook.

Blackjacks suggestion is about spot on. For the first year relegate bottom 2 teams from Premier league and have a playoff between Div 1 winner and 8th placed Premier League side to decide on make up of the two 8 team leagues. After that, promotion/relegation as per normal every year. If that means Olympic get relegated, then so be it. Decisions like this shouldnt be based around WHO may be relegated. thats just biased.

]]> By: charlie white http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-204 charlie white Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:33:41 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-204 Having played two games of div 1 in my life i am probably not the best person to speak of the standard of the competition, the way that teams "stack" their teams or whether Prem Clubs should be there or not, but everyone else seems to have an opinion. Div 1 to me is an independent competition from Premier. Clubs as far as I am aware are allowed to drop 3 players down the most 2 divisions on any one week. There is problems with this in that if you played Prem and then received an injury and did not play for a few weeks when you return you are still classified as a Prem player who has dropped, not the very stiff and sore player who needs a run around that you are and who has not played for a few weeks. At KLUSC we have very different squads, coaches and support staff (not to mention supporters) of our teams. I think Div 1 needs the Prem Clubs to be there to ensure that the standard of the team that wins the competition is as good as it can be. Lets be honest, if you can not beat a teams 3rd or 4th team does the system of promotion prove anything in a small population such as ours. Hobart United won Div 1 against KLUSC and other clubs Div 1 teams and as history showed did not do very well last year. Having played two games of div 1 in my life i am probably not the best person to speak of the standard of the competition, the way that teams “stack” their teams or whether Prem Clubs should be there or not, but everyone else seems to have an opinion.

Div 1 to me is an independent competition from Premier. Clubs as far as I am aware are allowed to drop 3 players down the most 2 divisions on any one week. There is problems with this in that if you played Prem and then received an injury and did not play for a few weeks when you return you are still classified as a Prem player who has dropped, not the very stiff and sore player who needs a run around that you are and who has not played for a few weeks.

At KLUSC we have very different squads, coaches and support staff (not to mention supporters) of our teams. I think Div 1 needs the Prem Clubs to be there to ensure that the standard of the team that wins the competition is as good as it can be. Lets be honest, if you can not beat a teams 3rd or 4th team does the system of promotion prove anything in a small population such as ours. Hobart United won Div 1 against KLUSC and other clubs Div 1 teams and as history showed did not do very well last year.

]]> By: blackjack http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-203 blackjack Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:11:32 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-203 Ok, so let's reduce the Premier League to eight teams. How?? (Come on SJ, Left Back this is your idea.) :-D As the way things stand at this moment (and I know it won't happen for the 2007 season...but let's play devil's advocate for a moment), the bottom 3 teams from premier league must go down and Taroona have already won the right to promotion. The three teams from Premier to be relegated are: Hobart United, Metro & Hobart Olympic. Did I just hear screams of anguish from the Greek community, not to mention the sound of galloping feet running in every direction? :-D :-D Ok, so let’s reduce the Premier League to eight teams.

How?? (Come on SJ, Left Back this is your idea.) :-D

As the way things stand at this moment (and I know it won’t happen for the 2007 season…but let’s play devil’s advocate for a moment), the bottom 3 teams from premier league must go down and Taroona have already won the right to promotion.

The three teams from Premier to be relegated are: Hobart United, Metro & Hobart Olympic. Did I just hear screams of anguish from the Greek community, not to mention the sound of galloping feet running in every direction? :-D :-D

]]> By: Lionheart http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-202 Lionheart Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:21:16 +0000 http://tasfootball.plebian.net/blog/20061202/should-clubs-be-permitted-to-have-a-team-in-both-premier-div1-competitions/#comment-202 Fabrizo...sorry mate, that's a crock. I can't speak for other clubs but Kingborough DO NOT drop premier players merely to get a win in Div.1, yet they are more than competative in that league. Tim Dale & Warren Iles (as Premier coaches) just would not let their players be used like that. It places the Premier players in jeopardy of injury, etc. and denies up and coming players of an opportunity, and surprisingly, Premier League IS the priority for these coaches, so they won't take those kind of risks. I can't speak for the Kingborough coaches but I am sure Charlie White will support me when I say KLUSC has Premier League as the first priority, in terms of selection. The second rung is Premier reserves & Div.1 (of equal priority), selection then becomes a case of balance of what the coaches are trying to achieve with players going up & down the ladder of opportunity. The third rung is U/19 and Div.1 reserves. SJ, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the entire structure change all over again, why should next year be any different to every other year? A game of 'move the goal posts' and keep them off balance. Sad, but true, even if it isn't the intention. Fabrizo…sorry mate, that’s a crock. I can’t speak for other clubs but Kingborough DO NOT drop premier players merely to get a win in Div.1, yet they are more than competative in that league. Tim Dale & Warren Iles (as Premier coaches) just would not let their players be used like that. It places the Premier players in jeopardy of injury, etc. and denies up and coming players of an opportunity, and surprisingly, Premier League IS the priority for these coaches, so they won’t take those kind of risks.

I can’t speak for the Kingborough coaches but I am sure Charlie White will support me when I say KLUSC has Premier League as the first priority, in terms of selection. The second rung is Premier reserves & Div.1 (of equal priority), selection then becomes a case of balance of what the coaches are trying to achieve with players going up & down the ladder of opportunity. The third rung is U/19 and Div.1 reserves.

SJ, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see the entire structure change all over again, why should next year be any different to every other year? A game of ‘move the goal posts’ and keep them off balance. Sad, but true, even if it isn’t the intention.

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