September 18, 2007
FFT & TIS Development Programme
I want to ask this question…at the completion of the current state U/15 programme players are to be advised of their selection in the TIS programme. This squad will be full-time. see here Where will this squad play? In which competition?
The current system now sees the better players that have been developed by the clubs as juniors removed from those clubs into full time squads at 12 years of age through to 16 years of age.
When will these players return to their clubs? Consider FFT still has plans to extend full time programmes through to U/19.
I find it interesting that the FFT programme is now effectively run to the detriment of most clubs rather than for the benefit of both players and clubs. Remember FFT are actively encouraging teams to stay together and go to clubs such as Clarence and their elite development programmes. Something FFT denied would happen by stating all players would be strongly urged to return to their home clubs.
This whole scenario is made to look even more ridiculous when you consider the SPL is to be reduced to eight teams with the hope of redistributing talented players yet state teams are being told to stay together.
I just don’t get it?
Sorry blackjack, but your wrong about state players being told to stay together. My son plays in the u15’s and he is in no way being encouraged to play for a certain club. I get the feeling that most of the players will in fact be going back to their original clubs. Last years players went to clarence on their own free will (most were already Clarence players) and they had no pressure from FFT. I think there was a comment from Pumbi on a prvious blog that will confirm that. As far as TIS next year and where and/or who they may be playing, we have not received information about that.
Comment by red card — September 18, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
The idea of having all the best “Southern” boys training together, under “expert” coaching, all heading in one direction, understanding the pattern of play that is required by the coaching staff is a good one.
But the clubs will lose out, they wont see the better boys for a number of years, then if slightly persuaded or guided by those around them, they will head to a particular club or clubs. The boys will also miss out on being able to play with their school mates, miss out on leaning or understanding differing coaches and patterns of play.
In my opinion they will get a big drop off, bored and burnt out and none of the clubs may ever see the better boys again. We need to better develop our boys, and the idea of sending the regional 14’s to Victoria, would want to be much better organised than last years debacle.
The FFT program, coupled to the new Institute will make it much easier for the NW boys, they can simply go to their clubs earlier, and get into club football and develop there, thus saving their families an enormace expense
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 18, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
not to mention the massive amounts of traveling and time required with programs that are running over four years’
If players really want to make it to the “big time” when they reach 17 or 18, they can easily afford a couple of weeks trials in the north islands State or Premier leagues with the money saved from developing at club level, and not with FFT. It was dear enough doing two state years, but this is now getting out of hand, we will lose more potentially great players than we do now. The NW clubs should get together and develop our own 13’s and 14’s, get them ready for making the transition from school to club level (U/18’s), reform the NWTSSA and turn back the clock a couple of years and make more top youngsters that each of our NW clubs currently enjoy.
Maybe all of our clubs need to find a sister club on the big island and create our own path for the young players, even get some “big island” coaching from these clubs?
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 18, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
Must say BJ I am a little suprised you opened this thorny debate up after the Clarence academy debate only a few weeks back.For what its worth I would hope any TIS full time squad played sides of similar ilk but not as part of an existing structure.By this I mean something like the under 15 state side has done this year.Lets face it our under age system accross the board is a bit of a jumble with some PL clubs fielding 1 or 2 or 3 teams in age groups from under 13-17 plus there are school teams Hutchins Friends Calvin etc and then there are other clubs who dont bother as much with the teenagers just picking up players as they come along.
Ideally FFT should require its 8 PL clubs to field at least 1 team in the Div 1 or Div 2 competition in each age group 13-16 therefore each club would be responsible for developing their own talent for the future.Sadly as KC has pointed out once a player is part of a full time system for 4 or 5 years chances are they wont go back to their club.
In the season past Zebras,Clarence,NTE and Metro and Kingbourgh have produced some of the top 13, 14,15 year old teams with Knights clean sweeping the under 16 league..wonder if these will be the same clubs that are rewarded in a year or two for their efforts.
Comment by interested spectator — September 19, 2007 @ 8:12 am
Some food for thought Kevin and very well put although I am not sure that a return to regionalisation is the answer.
I realise that FFT probably think that they are doing the right thing for the benefit of the young players but I still believe that helping the Clubs to develop these players both through training the players AND the coaches will, in the long term, produce an overall better result, not just a team that does well at the Nationals and then moves on to one Club or another for no other reason than they simply want to stay together as friends.
Comment by A Whisper — September 19, 2007 @ 8:55 am
IS- Knights ‘clean sweep’ of the u-16 league wasn’t against the best under 16 players in the south. They drew twice (and won all the other games) against two Clarence teams, a Taroona team, Friends and Hutchins. Clarence’s 15 best u-16 players played u-19s last season, and would have beaten these u-16s Knights hands down. I cannot speak for Taroona, or indeed the other teams (eg. Tilford, Kingborough, NT Eagles) whose best 16s players would have been playing 19s as well, however the fact remains that the win in the 16s league wasn’t against the best u-16 opposition. Congrats on their win though - they are a good team who will do well for the Knights in the future.
In answer to your statement, that the teams who have done well in 13s-16s last season will be rewarded, yes, this is correct, however the clubs which end up with the best results will be the clubs who have advanced their best players now.
Comment by redandblack — September 19, 2007 @ 11:45 am
R&B..While I understand your senitiments I am not sure you can say the Knights under 16 undefeated season wasn’t against the best under 16 players in the south. True a large number of players who would have still been eligible for under 16’s choose to play at a higher level (something I would encourage as for mine there is little use in winning a league title if your players are not being extended).This said the under 16 league is just that a league for under 16 players and if clubs such as Knights should choose for whatever reason keep their best players together rather than push them into higher leagues I dont think its right to put down the merits of their achievement. Actually using your argument it could be said Clarence under 19’s didnt win the league against the best u-19 players for most of the best under 19 players are already playing premier league.
Comment by interested spectator — September 19, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
I have to agree with K.C. at this stage on the NW boys. At the moment it seems almost impossible for any of our talented NW boys to play for their State. The last word I have recieved is that they should consider relocating. That is at 13 and 14 years of age move to Hobart to boarding school and TIS or full time State teams. A big ask at this level. If State teams are to continue to play full time, they are going to continue to be prdominantly Southern players ( I believe at the moment out of the 14 and 15 state teams only 4 or 5 from Launceston and none from NW) this being the case could we have Southern Tasmania and Northern Tasmania like NSW do?
Another question…..Are the full time teams better than they would be if 3 or 4 months before nationals a squad was selected and trained intensively, played a few practice matches and then travelled?… Back to the ‘good’ or ‘bad’ old days??? I don’t know?
Comment by Hugo — September 19, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Yes your argument at the end is quite correct…it’s what I would have said too. However when you consider the Clarence u-19s are 15-16 years old…
Again, their achievement to go through the season without losing and only drawing twice was very good, and I think that this should be applauded. However I disagree with you - the under 16 league does not showcase the very best under 16 players in the south…the very best will have moved onwards and upwards.
Comment by redandblack — September 19, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Kevin whilst i am sure in your own local bubble you will win plenty of support for your argement , real big picture thinking !!
I was under the understanding that a regional TIS program had been set up to assist with player development working under same conditions as southern guys with visitation from Head coaches ? is this not correct ??
Even you who I have been informed have coached a State Youth Level , must recognise the need for kids to be competing at highest possible level 9 not within own back yard - they need to be pushed and extended ), training with intensity - not like most clubs - with training based on improving technical skills, developing game awareness - my opinion of club development is winning mentality not development . The TIS programs will benefit the better “elite” players , clubs with good development programs also have a major impact on our players coming through especially those not part of the TIS program who may well become great club and state players of the future , this however needs to start at 9-10 ’s not 18’s
However I do agree that the costs to the participants is extreme , perhaps one should look toward the FFT merchandising role in this as one way to help cut costs !!!, notice that your NW area also being supplied under the FFT preferred supplier , hope the kids get the gear at cost price , not like the state and southern rep guys who have to pay the markup price!!. and how much gear does a kid need !!
It is a pity money donated by the Labour government has not been provided to assist kids in State teams with travel and training expenses ! but that is another story …
Comment by sent off — September 19, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Over many years of watching great underage State coaches like Morton, Greenwood, Davo, Franco, Connell, Francis, West and Edwards, i have seen many different ways to develop our youngsters, all with the same results; we try hard, play extremely well (for Tassie), but realistically do no better than Hugo’s suggestion of intense training and games a few months prior to the Nationals.
Yes the boys who train hard and make state teams benefit greatly, but Institutes and Academies have been set up in past years, even with U/16’s playing (and winning) in the Southern reserves competition. I argue they did no better than if they started later and trained on Sundays with as many practice games as possible. Also the coaches named above didn’t hold the majority or all state sessions in Hobart, as presently occurs, that stopped 25-35 years ago, and that seems to be where we are heading again, with the newly formed regional satellite Institute programs from 12’s onwards, then if you make a state team, its off to Hobart every week to play and train.
This will cause players from all regions (especially NW) to get bored, burnt out, lose interest and leave our great game. If we are to hold specialised regional sessions, hopefully with State coaching staff in attendance, and even guest coaches from interstate (like Neil arranged in years gone by), then send the boys to clubs, to play with their mates and get used to other tactics, systems and real games, strengthen clubs, and gain much needed financial support from their clubs, they can then, if selected, train with state teams for a few months then return to their clubs after putting in their best performances at Nationals. Its a hard one, but we have tried it all in the past, with no noticeable improvement, but hopefully the new program does produce heaps of better players.
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 19, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Interesting to hear that FFt are supplying academy teams with ready made squads (as per the intro to this blog).
Whom then would take the credit for results acheived throughout the year by clarence’s “fft encouraged team”?
Comment by pumpedupball — September 19, 2007 @ 8:04 pm
The 4 NW presidents are meeting each month and one of our concerns is the future of junior development of coastal players. It has become near impossible for any of our youth under 18 to make a state squad, according to FFT it is because they don’t play the FFT way. But even if we produced the best in the state playing the FFT way it would still be near impossible for them to meet FFT requirements in training and playing as a squad. I would love to see all the South players in the under 14’s etc travel to a NW club complex to train from 10am till 2pm every weekend! Dream on !!
So we seek answers to our problem, I agree with Hugo, at this stage it would appear that the best solution is to create Northern Tassie sides, the under 16’s would fit into the bye in the Under 18 roster and then begin the process to send 2 Rep teams away from Tassie.
A step back or forward? At least it will provide an acheivable pathway for a junior and because of the large distance between clubs, most of these players will revert back to their clubs afterwards.
Comment by browny — September 19, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
Browny makes an interesting point why cant we have two under
14,15 and 16 squads one north and one south with the best then drawn together to represent the state..The only worry about playing your under 16’s in the under 18 league would be that your best under 16’s should already be playing in the under 18’s with clubs and to draw them together may weaken the club sides..Also your best under 16s should already be playing reserves or seniors as is the case in the Southern part of the state.I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but the one year the state under 15’s played in the southern under 19 competition they almost won the league.
Ironically they went away to the nationals and were sensational for 2 games but tired as the week went by..Have we learned anything from that excercise..time alone will tell.
Comment by interested spectator — September 20, 2007 @ 10:23 am
Back in my day we had two coaches, one up north and one down south and we alternated who travelled where to train.
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Luckily we also had a very dedicated manager in Brian Dale and between himself and the southern based coach Chris Hey, all the players could fit in their cars for the journeys north. Occasionally we would train separately with our local coach.
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This coaching split seems to have been more effective than the current technique.
Comment by Tommy — September 20, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
From my perspective, what is required is forget about forcing clubs to have an under 19’s - most of whom are proabably old enough to play at a higher level, instead encourage U13’s and U15’s teams at club level. But to make it work will require FFT to enforce a limit on teams a club may enter into any particular league.
Of course to make anything work there needs to be closer development and connection with the high schools and FFT for kids aged between 12 - 18 an area particularly weak in Tassie.
For state development, the youth both girls and boys should be encouraged to play with local clubs and then train extra if state selected through a process of invitation and if a game is scheduled a club must release them to attend, similar to the way world cup works.
Comment by ajp — September 21, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
the state u/15 goalkeeper has a wrist injury and today a doctor recommended he put it in plaster for two weeks to prevent further damage. at this point he has decided to try and see if it improves and play with strapping on.
surely this must beg the question, why was no reserve keeper selected?? every other state takes two, this could destroy the boys chances at nationals before they even get on the plane!
Comment by el diablo — September 22, 2007 @ 1:28 am
el diablo to answer your question. Selecting just the one keeper leaves another ‘place’ in the team for an outfield player. Such is the challenging environment at nationals ’sometimes’ it is felt that the extra player is worth taking the risk. Generally i would say it pays off, but in this case its an exception. Its a bold risk. I would say that there is already a ’second’ or ‘reserve’ choice keeper being thought of to replace the injured lad. I hope he recovers, it would be a shame for him to misout especially in his last year at nationals. A Speedy recovery i wish him.
Comment by Borat — September 22, 2007 @ 11:05 am
el diablo, need to check your mail.
Talked to the kid after reading your post, he is ok and fine to play.
Didn’t channel 7 get in strife 2 weeks ago, for revealing players medical information - correct or incorrect.
Comment by pumpedupball — September 22, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
BJ..perhaps a suggestion to enlighten those who are concerned about the full time TIS squad..Try and arrange an interview with Bruce Stowell..I am sure he would be only too happy to answer any questions.I ask a few at the weekend and found his answers most enlightening..For those worried this group of players will be in a league..I wouldnt be..If I understood him correctly his goal is to develop players who can go on to be selected in Australian youth teams.He is familar with Tasmanians having coach Domonic Longo
in the then Australian under 15 or 16 team..Where the team will play appears to be of less concern than getting the players the right support..medical..nutrional and developmental..The more games you play doesnt mean the better player you are..If he is happy to answer your questions it would put alot of peoples minds at rest..I was very impressed and given 3 to 5 years to implement his plans we might just see a few more than 3 or 4 players in the V league or higher still.
Comment by interested spectator — September 23, 2007 @ 4:00 pm