September 22, 2007
North vs South Challenge
Saturday 22nd September
North-South Challenge Series (Women)
North 1 v South 1
McCulloch Parker
(Agg 3-4)
North-South Challenge Series (Men)
North 1 v South 2
Kakadumane Ladic
Fagg
(Agg. 1-4)
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A busy weekend in launceston with the North South series the George Dale medal and the Launceston Junior tournament.On current form you would think South will clean sweep the North South Series however I will be more interested to see which region wins the under 13,14 and 15 Launceston Junior tournaments. Depending on the result it will either add to the debate about why North and NW players dont play the FFT and we might see exactly what that means.
Comment by interested spectator — September 20, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Interested Spec - you have made some point , it will be very interesting to look at the performances especially in the 14 and 15 competition with none of the State boys are participating - with only Southern guys in the 15’s surely the North and North West must dominate to back up the words of Kevin and Hugo , similar in the 14 although the North will lose a couple south have their first 11 out also ( according to State Coach selected in State team ). 13 should give a fairer view ,at the recent junior cup in Hobart 13 teams were fairly even result wise , the question may well be did perform technically well or did they play kick and run to win games ??
I for one will be spending my day at Churchill Park watching the kids rather than spending my hard earned on watching seniors go through motions !
Comment by Oncesackedcoach — September 20, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Don’t blame you Oncesackedcoach, the kids will be trying harder than the mens game, crikey’s i could name 20 guys from the top end that should have been in that mens squad, and i gather the southern squad has heaps not playing as well.
As for the NW teams, they will play to their best ability as always, but i will say this, we have lost a massive amount of talented youngsters to that funny shaped football game when they realised what is required for coastal boys to make state squads now days, its easier at junior Aussie Rules, a real shame, but WE WILL RETURN.
We need to go it alone and develop our boys, send our 14’s back to the Adelaide Development program, get in mainland coaches etc, for our clubs and for the boys sake, come on NW, lets get it going again.
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 20, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
KC
20 guys - that seems to say a lot about the state of the game in north/north west that they couldn’t be bothered participating in such a series.
Pity as it is from that series that any state side will be chosen.
The standard of soccer on display in somerset v zebras game and north v south first leg didn’t indicate that the style of game being played in north has progressed at all from the ‘good old days’ of kick and run or if it moves kick it.
‘go it alone’ ?? — talk to your club president!!
“Adelaide Development program” - was simply a number of games against Adelaide regional development squads playing against the three Tasmanian regional squads. No different to what NW squads do now – except in a different state. Get in mainland coaches??? - to do what?
How about trying to work with FFT for a change? Just because you are no longer involved with state teams doesn’t mean you need to oppose what is being done by people who have a greater knowledge of developmental programs and what is needed to make them a success.
Comment by sj — September 21, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
Just back from interesting weekend in the North..Saw plenty of under 13,14 ,15 teams at Churchill Park and sorry to say the NW boys really need alot of intensive workas KC is suggesting..Of most concerned was that one of the teams played a central defender 10 to 20metres behind the rest of the backline.. he could only play the ball with one foot..worse still his southern opponents and their coach werent able to work out this was an easy area to exploit and as a result were trailing by the time I left….I sure hope our state teams are several levels above any of the games I watched or they will really struggle on the mainland…Disheartened by the juniors I headed up to mitsubishi park just in time for the kick off in the mens game…Glad the long journey from Hobart hadnt tired me out for the north south game was the most lacklustre I have seen this year.(admittedly I hadnt seen many)..Was lucky enough to see an advance screening of the video which I understand was shown at the George Dale medal night..Zebras v Somerest..or was that Ali and Frazier..I understand what SJ means now by..the ‘good old days’ of kick and run or if it moves kick it.
After my weekend away I simply wish those at the TIS and all those charged with improving our game all the best..from what this spectator saw there is oodles of room to improve.
Comment by interested spectator — September 23, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
I am just about fed up. FFT did the right thing by sending out a media release about the North v South game yet neither of the men’s coaches even bothered to answer the phone. I had to get the score from one of the substitutes! Neither coach bothered to return the call after a message was left.
When I asked what time the goals were scored, the substitute offered to ask the referee, who was standing nearby. When he asked the referee, the reply was “Oh, in each half”. Well, if that’s the sort of response the media can expect, why bother covering the games? I felt sorry for the substitute. He was genuinely trying to assist me.
And, I’m a soccer person, with a passion for the game. The media release was sent to TV stations and the ABC as well. If they got a similar response, they wouldn’t even bother covering soccer in the future. Perhaps that’s why WIN TV got the score wrong (they had 3-1 instead of 2-1).
The women’s coaches, on the other hand, were very cooperative. They answered their phones and gave quotes and other useful information. Well done Matthew and Jason.
With two games against South Australia coming up, why should I bother covering them if that’s the sort of cooperation I can expect? I am very, very disappointed. Perhaps I take the game too seriously. This latest incident seems to indicate that perhaps I do and that Tasmanian soccer is, after all, just a social competition.
Comment by Walter Pless — September 23, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
Good to see you seem to have the game at heart too sj, but i think that you miss understand what i am on about, or maybe you have a beef with me as your comments seemed to be? See if this clarifies my positions, so you better understand me?
The twenty or so players that were not available for the Northern squad were for differing reasons, injuries, illness, work, holidays, weddings, expense and numerous others. A pity as i love the game and would love to see the states best 30 men playing a showcase game, hopefully it will happen one day?
If you had attended the Zebra’s v Somerset match at Shark Park the other week, you would have seen some fantastic passing and a highly skillful game at times, yes there was some biffo (and not just from the Sharks), which unfortunately was highlighted by the media and again at the Presentation night, which i feel is in poor taste, is poor advertising and does nothing for our great game (why not show the classy moves etc not the “crowd pleasing tough stuff”). This was not, and is not a reflection on the standard of soccer from the two teams, or in fact the way we all play in our state, (i believe that the skill level is improving rapidly each year), but the game was played by both teams with heaps of passion, something Pullen and co loved and relished in, and were extremely happy with the match overall. It was not as high classed a match as i have seen over the last couple of seasons, but it was a close, exciting skillful match, IT WAS A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH, with heaps of bragging rights at stake.
As for “going it alone” my suggestion was and is still, that if FFT expect a full time U/15 squad to be based and play every weekend in Hobart, and if this is so, then we should offer our NW boys who cannot commit to this for what ever reason a chance to continue to develop. Each of the years i traveled to Adelaide with NW U/14’s we played great games v SA regional teams and were well looked after, with guest coaches taking coaching sessions, it was rewarding for all players and coaching staff alike.
From what has been relayed to me from parents and players of last years NW U/14’s, the Victoria trip was poorly arranged (one team didn’t even turn up), the majority of matches were club teams and not of a high standard as in Adelaide, and the squads traveled up to 2 hours to play, not like the Adelaide 20 minute trips to a central venue.
In past years, Neil Connell arranged for several top quality mainland coaches to run courses with coaches in our state, as well as spending several days with our state teams, they were fantastic, and not only assisted the players, but the coaching staff as well, with different methods of communication, structures etc.
Yes i was involved in coaching state teams for three years, and on the whole it was thoroughly enjoyable and we traveled the state, training, and playing games against different styles from different regions, some beneficial others not so rewarding. The boys all seemed to have benefited and the majority are still playing, mostly seniors statewide, they were great players “from around the state”, and still are, some are winning or close to winning associations awards.
I am not knocking FFT or their program, only stating that several of these things have been tried before, and made little or no difference in my opinion. I hope that David’s programs and Institute all achieve a positive outcome, but i for one will not stand by and watch many talented NW boys change over to the ‘other code” (as has happened during the last two years) and be lost for good from our game. From what i hear the U/13 regional teams heading to Newcastle is of great benefit and a great selection trial format for the next years U/14 state teams, but the expense of that followed by a ordinary trip to Victoria the following year, is not so beneficial. Lets send NW and other regions (if interested) back to Adelaide as U/15’s, even try and get some of the SA regions over in the U/14 years, as they have expressed interest in past years.
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 23, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Pity i missed catching up with you “interested spectator”, i would have loved to chat about the game as a whole in the state, and i could also have pointed out how most of the NW teams were extremely competitive in Launceston and all attempted to play more of a passing game than they did in Hobart, where overall they may have been a bit shabby. Maybe someone could get the results from Launceston of the 13’s 14’s and 15’s, i think we went pretty well???
From the NW aspect, to me the game is improving this year, we have had a few “lean years” (due to many players changing codes or losing interest) but needs heaps done to lift it to a great standard. In my opinion the senior clubs up here need to work in closer with the junior bodies, not each region on the coast running their own programs, and clubs not taking leadership. They should be more involved, either coaching or offering specialised sessions etc., thats each of the four clubs, not just one or two?
We need to combine and develop as a group, having 9 or 10 quality players in U/10’s through to U/12’s and not the present 4 or 5, who don’t always have the confidence to play at their best as they are sometimes unsure of their regional teams abilities. If we were to play our current regional games as selection trials (as we do for the older age groups) for NW selections from 10’s to 15’s in both boys and girls, then we could enter a team in both the development and div 1 sections of carnivals, where we would be developing 30 or so players in each age group, better improving individual skills and performances, who would play with more confidence and be able to compete strongly against the states best. The current system of each NW region playing against other regions in the state who have three times the numbers to select from, does not improve our football up here at all, but those who have been successful, well done, you were outstanding.
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 23, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
KC
My only beef is that you seem determined to try and work outside a system that your region has recently requested to be run by FFT. There were Adelaide based reasons for the change of venue for development squad visits. Whilst last years visits to Victoria may not have been perfect (i have no firsthand knowledge of them at all) lets see how this years visits go. But regardless - there should be no ‘going it alone’. As I suggested - talk to your club president, and those youth development people in your region who have recently requested FFT involvement - that is, work within the system not outside of it. I suggest the loss of people to the oval ball game is as much to do with the attitude of people like yourself who make such a great noise about how hard it is be part of a state team rather than point out that it can be done quite easily. yes there is travel involved but each talented player can easily be accommodated within the system if people support rather than oppose it.
And as for the Somerset/Zebras game - you must have a very coloured pair of glasses - the majority did not contain ‘fantastic passing’ and was surely more physical than skilful.
But i guess it would be boring if we all saw things exactly the same way.
Comment by sj — September 23, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
sj
i am sorry that you feel i am trying to work out of the FFT system or our regions system, i am not, i am voicing an opinion, which needs airing up this way, we have massive problems developing on the coast, we may be able to develop numbers and mediocre players, but we wont be developing champions under this current system. This year our coastal clubs have finished in the top 3 in seniors and top 4 in the unders, that has come from hard work from our previous programs, not this current one.
i take great offense to your inference that i try and discourage players from attempting to make state teams, you really do not know me at all do you? I have spent many years pushing players to state trials, and not just from my Somerset area, but right over the Northern part of the state, most thought it was too demanding, too costly and time taxing (which it really is), but when you weigh up the positives, it is realy worth attempting to make these teams and undertake these massive sacrifices. I wont every coastal player to have a chance at making state.
.
The NW have over the past several years enjoyed a good number of state reps, many of which still play today in our senior, like 3 x Eaves, 2 x Wilson’s, 2 x Conses, 2 x Wells, 2 x Smith, Cocks, Hingston, Gillam, Skene, Johnson, Shak, Snare, Phillips Crole and many others, also players like Ambrose & Luck whom now play in Launceston.
Over the last two years this has changed, so we need to at least investigate the problem and maybe return to the true and tried methods. In recent years one NW region wanted to go it alone, and coupled with the breakdown of the NWTSSA, they seem to have sent the NW region back to the dark ages. I would love a meeting of FFT, the 4 clubs and 3 NW regions with an invite to all those concerned to sit down and re-evaluate our NW position before we lose too many more talented youngsters.
I for one don’t like what is occurring at the moment up this way, and many parents, coaches, other soccer people, past state players, and current players are voicing their concerns to me as well, but not from all of our NW regions?
As for the Zebra’s game, you cant tell me that Pullen isn’t one of the best midfielder’s ever to play in this state and Brazendale isn’t a fast classy players who is a handful for any defenders, if so maybe you should watch videos of games from a decade ago, and compare them to todays fast and skilfull matches?
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 23, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
only lton result i have heard is U13’s
South fulltime 1st
North 2nd
North west 3rd
Comment by sj — September 24, 2007 @ 12:04 am
KC
As i understand it - from a fair distance - the nw bodies have sought FFT input - albeit only recently. FFT in the south have looked to increase the numbers of players exposed to better coaching by increasing the number of development squads at all age groups. i would think they would promote the same approach in NW.
Pullen has played much better than he has this year (still a good player , and may win vic tuting). Brazendale is ‘flashy’ but not that effective. Certainly dont consider this season to have been as good as last season in south. Big call about 10 years ago - in south I doubt it, and north v south and state premiership games dont lend themselves to the argument. But you are closer to the game in north.
Comment by sj — September 24, 2007 @ 12:33 am
BJ
havent meant to offend anyone just yet.
greater numbers - in that there are more rep sides in junior associations and one would hope that they would be receiving benefits from being prepared for and playing in carnivals.
Also more rep sides at youth level than in the past. Coaches of rep sides are selected from many applicants, all receive guidance from C&D manager, are invited to attend at least two sessions per year re current developments etc. so that all are on same wavelength. Whether any particular club has a better coach than any particular rep side is debatable no doubt. But surely the more players exposed to different coaching - in the part-time squads for example - the better the standard in the weekly competition is likely to be? I wasn’t thinking so much about just the fulltime squads.
Comment by sj — September 24, 2007 @ 1:05 am
not aware of any benchmarks. Results at nationals - possibly not. Views of national development coaches of the way tassie sides are playing at nationals - maybe. Tassie sides no longer go away not to lose games - they actually try to play - give the players an opportunity to display their skills. this is a marked change. Value for money? - not sure it costs more than it used to a few years ago?
Comment by sj — September 24, 2007 @ 1:52 am
KC also sorry I didnt see you at Churchill..In fairness to all teams
represented I tried to see as many games as possible in the 2 or so hours I was there and therefore had more of an overview than focus on the NW teams.You are right when you say overall they may have been a bit shabby..and you are also right when you say the senior clubs need to work closer with the juniors..Having little to do with your neck of the woods I am unsure of what is rumour and what is fact but I heard recently that the NTJSA (either had to or is about to) change its consitution so that senior clubs can actually have junior teams..It was suggested in the past you could only be a junior club not both..horrific if true.Enough kids drop out when there is a logical and natural pathway to follow let alone being seperate.I also acknowledge (from one of your posts to sj) that the NW has produced many talented players..sadly as with southern players the number of these that have gone beyond the blue water to bigger things is too few to mention.Our leagues both North and South are social leagues at best as indicated by other postings of recent days.Accross the state more needs to be done or the decline will continue.
Best of luck and hope next time I get to a junior carnival I dont leave as dissillusioned.
Comment by interested spectator — September 24, 2007 @ 6:05 am
Interested Spectator , some years ago I wrote a paper outlining the then current situation of “Soccer Competitions ” in Tasmania .
The following is an extract , I wonder if any thing has changed.
The registration system perhaps.
North-western State Schools Soccer Association.
The Northwestern Section has remained a School based competition with no direct involvement by Clubs although coaching and material support is provided.
This body is responsible for junior soccer up to age 15 in the Northwest of the state. It is self-contained having its own registration and records systems. The area controlled is effectively west of and including the city of Devonport and its environs. The area under control is further divided into four sub sections for competition purposes.
These are: -
U/7 to U/15 Burnie Junior Association
U/7 to U/15 Somerset Junior Association
U/7/to U/15 Ulverstone Junior Association
U/7 to U/15 Devonport Junior Association
The only area in common that this body shares with Soccer Tasmania is a child aged 14 years. Under Soccer Tasmania rules these players are allowed to play in the local Soccer Tasmania under 17 competitions. The NWTSSA holds the view that for these young persons to represent their locality in “ junior” carnivals they should also be registered with their body, thus the problem of dual registration rears its head.
The administration of this Association is also convoluted. The “Regions “register the players and administer the Primary segments however the NWTSSA runs the “High Schools “league.
It should be noted that Adult Soccer Clubs are not members of the NWTSSA.
Northern Tasmania Junior Soccer Association.
This body is responsible for junior soccer in the North of the state although its constitution has no upper age limit. The area controlled is effectively east of Deloraine. It is self-contained having its own registration and records systems.
The only area in common that this body shares with Soccer Tasmania is a boy aged 14 years. Under Soccer Tasmania rules these players are allowed to play in the local Soccer Tasmania under 17 competitions. The NTJSA holds the view that for these young persons to represent their locality in “ junior” carnivals they should also be registered with their body, thus the problem of dual registration rears its head.
From time to time The NTJSA sees fit to expand its league structure by conducting an under 16 league. This cuts across the Soccer Tasmania under 17 leagues.
It should be noted that Adult Soccer Clubs are not be members of the Northern Tasmania Junior Soccer Association. Therefore each adult soccer club has to have a separate Junior Club, which is self-contained having its own registration and records systems. These Junior Clubs compete against their Adult colleagues for funding etc.
Soccer Tasmania Under Age Competition (South)
This originated as a High Schools Association. As stated above the Southern Tasmanian Soccer Association decided that all Premier Clubs had to have a junior development program that consisted of each Club having at least two sides aged between under 13 and under 17. This new competition ran parallel to the then existing High Schools Association.
Fortunately common sense prevailed and the two organizations combined to form Southern Youth. Southern Youth was eventually absorbed into Soccer Tasmania.
Comment by Brian Roberts — September 24, 2007 @ 8:31 am
It frustrates mw alot to keep hearing that all we can do in the North and North West is kick and chase. I am willing to conceed that the South Full Time squad U-13 definitely play the best football, however that is not because we coach our boys to kick and chase. We teach all the same things but we do not have the same depth that Southern teams have so our passing often breaks down at a weaker link, whereas the Southern team don’t appear to have those weak links in the passing chain. We have 6 or so really good players in most of our NW teams but the standard drops fairly fast. This is I would say is due to a much smaller population to select from.
If it is only results that interest people at the recent Festival cup after the 4 way round robin U-13
North West 9 Points
South Full Time 3 Points
North 3 Points
South Part Time 3 Points
North West went on to play South FT in the final 2-2 draw North West declared winners on count back.
And yes we play as much of a passing game as we possibly can
Well done South boys at Launceston by far the best team.
Comment by Hugo — September 24, 2007 @ 9:43 am
I sympathise with you Hugo..you and many like you are doing the best with the players you have available and as you conceed things break down when you have a much smaller population to select from.
However from a totally neutral standing (having not had an involvement with this series for a year or two ) the overall standard was not what I remembered..That may have something to do with the intensity one has went actively involved watching your own children and friends children but this time round sitting back and watching I didnt really see any team rise to any great heights..As I have already said I didnt see all teams and wasnt there all weekend but my personal opinion is that the general standard is not what it once was..Not sure I have an answer as to why but with more kids playing our game than ever before you would hope the standard would go up but somewhere the system is breaking down. sadly I think its a lot further down the years than some might suggest…Rep players at 14 and 15 should be able to use both feet and from what I saw saturday the players who could were few and far between.
Comment by interested spectator — September 24, 2007 @ 10:54 am
I.S. I think maybe you have a point when you said that you are not involved anymore and therefore not watching with the same intensity. I suggest that if you were you would see that at least half of the rep players are using both feet, not equally but they can use their non-preferred when needed (more than one could say for Maradonna). Before passing judgement you should have a really good look, there has been some great football played over the past fortnight, well done to all concerned. I remember backin the eighties when I was playing rep soccer, the standard was heaps better (only joking) Too many people believe things were better back then, I don’t think they were, the kids are getting better.
Comment by Hugo — September 24, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Hugo your not wrong when you played rep soccer it was better the only thing we need to work out is how to get it back to those days.
The Matt Sanders and Chris Sanitas came through the same programme though a few years later.I remember those days and several years after when the NW was a feared opponent as were Devonport and Burnie powerhouse sides for many years in the now defunct statewide league..however time marches on and it seems we are just left with memories of the past and hopes for the future..My hope is that you and those of your ilke keep working with these kids the future is only as good as those shaping it , change takes time and if you persist I am sure we will turn the corner..just hoping it sooner rather than later..
Comment by interested spectator — September 24, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Matty, Chris, Shermo, and Chisa have all come through State and regional programs over the last few years, they were great kids, terrific players, easy to coach (at times), but they all had that desire to improve further and showed more determination than all the others, thats why they have moved away to see how far they can get., and we wish them all the best
Hugo was a champion player, even at a young age, he showed enormous potential, but Hugo’s dig about the old day players being better skilled etc, was i hope a tongue in cheek dig, as the kids of today are faster and more skillful, but most lack that passion of the old days.
Comment by Kevin Considine — September 24, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Yes Kev as I said (only joking) we had no real structure or technical coaching, we just did our best, I was lucky enough to have spent my first 13 years in England. My rep teams were not up to todays standard and my rep coaches were not up to todays standards either. We were strong in NW though and won all our carnivals
Comment by Hugo — September 24, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
PS. thanks for the compliment K.C. you and I once were a feared duo up front for Burnie LOL
Comment by Hugo — September 24, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
BJ One thing better than a couple of old plonkers remembering how great they were!!! When those old plonkers are putting back into the game..keep up you good work on the coast Hugo and KC if you had 20 with the same passion and drive the debate over the standard of rep soccer we have had would not be happening..too few doing too much I suppose thats always the way.
Comment by interested spectator — September 25, 2007 @ 6:10 am